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Ultimate Edition 3.4 Lite LTS Questions

Older versions of Ultimate Edition


Ultimate Edition 3.4 Lite LTS Questions

Postby Driver » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:42 pm

Glad to hear about a currently (and future) supported Lite LTS edition! I only have a couple of questions:

Since it is a Lite edition, would you expect it to perform well on the systems that I have access to?

The newest is a laptop with 32-bit Intel T2250, one gig of ram, and Intel 945GMA (I think) shared-memory graphics. I thought this one was really old, but from recent checking I think I might have purchased it in late 2006, so not so old after all. I thought "performance" on it was hopeless until I tried Mint 14 with the Xfce desktop on it, either the newer components used in distros these days (I had been using Ultimate Edition 3.0 - installing an OS was always hit&miss as far as whether the thing would hold together long enough to get through it, lol, so I didn't install new every single time one came out - so a lot of the code was probably outdated) made a world of difference as that one uses Quantal as a base which came out in October, or else maybe it was the fact that it doesn't use a lot of memory (I checked one time about two minutes after booting into the desktop and it showed 159 meg of ram being used with just the usual stuff, desktop, extra "fancy" menu with favorites set up on a second panel bar, system load applet, cpu speed applet, cpu changer applet (had to have one for display of frequency and one to change that speed, lol), network traffic monitor applet, system temperatures applet, fancy weather applet, a mail checker, a separate logoff/shutdown/etc. applet, battery, connection-picker, update checker, time/date display, calander display (part of Orage or whatever it's called, IDK if that would be considered an applet or not); the most I managed to get the ram usage up to was 645megs and that was with thunderbird running, the radio tray app playing, a .pdf loaded (whatever app Xfce uses, I can't remember, had a computer service manual open), and Firefox with I think 112 web pages displayed in tabs. But that was before the laptop's fan failed in a rather noisy and vibrating fashion, lol, so lately the ram usage has been closer to the bottom as I only use it when I can take it outside in the cold and that only for email and basic minimal forum reading/posting.

The next older computer is an Athlon XP2200+ @ (almost) 1.8gHz with either a gig or 1280 meg of ram (I forget) and an nVidia FX5200 AGP video card that I've been having trouble figuring out how to make work together even though I downloaded the newest 173 nVidia driver and its release notes clearly state that it works with the newer xorg1.13 (reason they released the update, actually :roll: ), so as you can imagine, it's not performing all that well right now with messed-up graphics. :sad:

The oldest one is an HP ze5200 laptop, I'm not sure when it was made, I've heard various report from 2003 back to 2000 but the newest BIOS update for it is dated Feb. 2004 so it was probably made in 2002 or 2003 at a guess. It's got an Intel Pentium 4 (4-D? 4-M?) running at 2.53gHz, 768 meg of (shared) ram, and ATI IGP340M/RS200 shared-memory graphics. I cannot seem to even find out which graphics driver I need to install that will work with the OS (currently Mint 14 Xfce) and provide the best (or, well, any) graphics performance, which is sad because after the owner told me I was welcome to try taking it completely apart to clean years of "yuck" out of it to stop it immediately shutting down due to overheating because they want to sell it soon and I did so it stopped overheating - and it's even sadder because another friend brought their Windows XP disc over to try that and we were actually able to watch a movie on Netflix in Firefox... But I am having serious trouble believing that good(ish) graphics performance is worth being forced to use Microsoft's OS, as you can probably understand.

So... How will the new Lite Ultimate Edition perform on the above systems? Mainly on the loaner HP laptop (oldest) because I am forced to keep a working installation of Mint 14 Xfce on one working computer in order to support someone that is brand new to computers who recently purchased a nice new laptop and is old enough that he, well... is past the age of easily "figuring out all this computer stuff," at least until he feels comfortable enough with basics that I can in good conscience tell him that if he still wants me to be able to mirror his setup at my house (to understand exactly what he's talking about when he calls me every day or two with a question/problem, lol), that I'm going to have to change his OS to Ultimate Edition (I suggested exactly that recently and he said, "Wait until I can get through a week without having to call you and ask you how to do simple stuff."). But after that day arrives, I'd certainly be open to putting Ultimate Edition back on my desktop, too.

And I have one other question: I read that this 3.4 Lite version has GNOME 2.x on it. At first, my thought was, "YAY!!! Awesome." But then I started wondering. While I'm still happy that a major - and powerful - OS still supports "old faithful," I do find myself wondering what, exactly, that support entails. IOW... Since the GNOME team has decided to drop 2.x like it was an infectious disease, lol, are you going to be maintaining all the packages (or whatever the process is called, forgive me please, I'm ignorant) so that whenever we install a new app or receive an update to something already installed, we won't have to worry about getting into the situation of something no longer being set up to work in a GNOME 2.x environment due to changed component requirements (is that what they call "deprecated?") and the like? That seems like an admirable, but rather tall, task. Or are you going to be "freezing" all or a lot of app/software/? versions so that our things will continue to work but we will not have access to the latest features (and possibly bugfixes?) and updates? There's not necessarily anything wrong with the latter, of course - I am not positive, but I believe that might be what Debian does with its "stable" branch and, while I've heard jokes about the social security checks some of its apps must be receiving by now, lol, it is certainly said to be stable.

I'm just curious about all of the above. After all, if this is to be your Long-Term Support version for the years ahead, you have probably thought all of this through (and I am really hopeful that it will be a viable/useful replacement for Ultimate Edition 2.6 which I kept on my desktop until recently - well, I switched to 2.7 when one of the 2.6 updates killed my display/graphics and I could no longer use it, but 2.7 was based on 2.6 so I guess it was LTS too, wasn't it?

Sign me cautiously hopeful (and glad that your website is back up!),
Driver
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Re: Ultimate Edition 3.4 Lite LTS Questions

Postby pam » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:02 pm

Ultimate Edition 3.4 lite is an excellent OS.
Just be sure to use a lot of swap space..

here is the 32 bit torrent:
http://linuxtracker.org/index.php?page= ... 391363a8c9

In case it gives trouble(it WONT), use an older version like Ultimate Edition 2.6.x
DONOTSPAMORTROLL:
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Download Ultimate Edition and Oz Unity 3.0 from copy:-
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Download Ultimate Edition from sourceforge:-
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http://sourceforge.net/projects/ueoz/files/UEOz/
Download Ultimate Edition torrents from linuxtracker:-
http://linuxtracker.org/index.php?page= ... 0&active=1
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Re: Ultimate Edition 3.4 Lite LTS Questions

Postby Driver » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:55 pm

pam wrote:Ultimate Edition 3.4 lite is an excellent OS.


It would have to be - it's an Ultimate Edition OS.

But that does not guarantee that it would be an excellent OS for my old relics. (Which means I'd still recommend it even if I read a line in the release notes which stated, "Driver, this one won't work for you." :lol: )

pam wrote:Just be sure to use a lot of swap space..


Yes, I will be using 1,152 meg of swap (1½ x physical ram, as per standard recommendations for computers without a lot of memory). EDIT: Although, come to think of it, the Mint 14 Xfce on my laptop before it "broke" never seemed to use more than 645 or so megs of ram even when I had Firefox loaded with MANY tabs and several other apps running at the same time. So I might not need all that swap - especially if there is a way to install Xfce on it as my DE.

pam wrote:here is the 32 bit torrent:
http://linuxtracker.org/index.php?page= ... 391363a8c9


Not being one of those pie-eating rats, I don't know torrents from a torrential downpour, lol. But I can grab it from Sourceforge if I decide to try installing it.

pam wrote:In case it gives trouble(it WONT), use an older version like Ultimate Edition 2.6.x


See, that's another thing... Once upon a time I installed the brand-new and still shiny Ultimate Edition 2.6 to my desktop, about two days (just long enough to read that people weren't having any problems installing it) after UE2.6 was released. And (computer) life was good. And then an update - 2.6.1(? might have been a later 2.6.x, to be honest, since I was happy with 2.6 and hadn't initially thought of installing an updated one until a future "full" version change) was released, so I downloaded that (, checked md5sum, burned at slowest speed onto excellent media,) and installed the new one. My graphics were, to be crude, "completely hosed." Several reboots later, I realized it wasn't going to fix itself. So I reinstalled it. Same thing. I then burned another disc from a fresh download (even though the first md5sum was correct) and re-reinstalled. Same thing. I then took both copies to a friend's house and talked them into letting me install them, one after the other, onto their computer - and both installed fine with no graphics issues. Dumbfounded, I returned home. I then "gave up" and reinstalled the original 2.6 version of Ultimate Edition - and, of course, things were fine again. Until, that is, the update manager pulled down the next set of updates and installed them onto my 2.6, at which point, yep, graphics hosed completely (screen full of garbage, I think some bits were actually slowly flashing). At that point, i was pretty upset. Not at TheeMahn or anyone on the Ultimate Edition team, you understand, because the OS was obviously golden for everyone else. Rather, just upset at my computer. I didn't know what to do... and then I remembered downloading and burning - but never installing - Ultimate Edition 2.7. I figured even attempting to install that would be a complete waste of time, since it was built on the same core that 2.6 was and, therefore (I assumed), would have gotten the same updates "put into the channel" that 2.6 had and that were preinstalled on the later 2.6.x discs. Imagine my pleased surprise when 2.7 installed and my graphics were fine (sort of, lol, still had to play nVidia brand Russian roulette figuring out the drivers, of course). But I lived in extreme fear of what would happen when I allowed the updates to download/install. I must have refused them for a week. Then I decided, what the heck, I will just re-reinstall 2.7 after they crash and burn my desktop. But the strange thing is that the updates went okay. And they continued to go okay.

I never did figure that out :roll: .

But I am "somewhat" (lmao) afraid to try installing 2.6.7 or any of the 2.6 family. Plus, it'll only be able to download updates for, what, two or three more weeks?

I happened to find that same Ultimate Edition 2.7 disc earlier. I am in the process of installing it now, just for giggles (and because it is technically still in the support window... for now). It included Xfce, so it might work on the ultra-low-resource loaner laptop.

My Mint 14 Xfce, being based upon Quantal, will lose support next year. Which isn't "LTS," but it's something.

Speaking of Mint, I think you are the person that tried to help me figure out the nVidia FX5200 situation on my desktop for that. I still haven't managed, and I tried your advice, others' advice, everything I could find via searches... to no avail. Maybe something I did at some point screwed me for all the later things I tried, I don't know. The funny(?) thing about that is that I actually managed to install the most recent (October) release of nVidia's 173 driver (173.14.36), which was specifically released to work with the 1.13 version of xorg (I believe .35 was released to work with xorg 1.11 and 1.12, but Mint 14 uses 1.13) - so everything should have played nice in the first place. Maybe I didn't know how to properly remove the Nouveau driver, blacklist (or unblacklist?) whatever I needed to, do the xorg.conf (if that's still even relevant? IDK), et cetera. Well... That is a given <SIGH> and before the night is over I'll be reinstalling Mint 14 Xfce on that desktop so that it'll be fresh and unmolested (and I won't do anything else at all to it, not even log in) if you want to take another shot at that little issue tomorrow. But I digress...

Ultimate Editiion 2.7 should be finished installing on the loaner laptop (with low ram, old CPU, and ATI IGP340M/RS200 shared-memory graphics) by now, and I'm cold out here, so I'll go inside and take a look. I just know I'll not be able to figure that one out - at least nVidia is still actively releasing updates to their 173 graphics driver, even though I have yet to figure out how to get that updated driver to actually work - but ATI seems to have stopped development on (whichever driver was the last one that actually worked with said ATI graphics setup) eons ago. So I'm worried.

I may still end up trying Ultimate Edition 3.4 Lite, but if I can't figure out how to make 2.7 work with the old laptop, I seriously doubt that a newer Ultimate Edition will be any different.

Best regards,
MDM
Driver "Driving you over the edge..."

Laptop: HP dv6226 - T2250 1.7gHz Pentium Dual-Core, 1gig, Intel (non-)graphics, Mint 14 Xfce 32-bit, MS Windows Vista Premium DOA
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Re: Ultimate Edition 3.4 Lite LTS Questions

Postby pam » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:15 am

That's the problem with legacy hardware..
Besides the dual core 32 bit chip, support for everything else is in a degraded state..
If you have no luck with any of the newer distro's then you might have to just use a much older distro.

like you mentioned that the initial version of Ultimate Edition 2.6 worked, id recommend you stick with that and maybe update software you use like firefox etc..
kernel upgrades are absolutely worthless on your systems. Infact downgrading to much older kernels will make you yelp with joy, that too if they ever worked.

try your luck with older lite versions:
http://ultimateedition.info/ultimate-ed ... tion-lite/
DONOTSPAMORTROLL:
http://forumubuntusoftware.info/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11
Download Ultimate Edition and Oz Unity 3.0 from copy:-
https://www.copy.com/s/oBnDBsDOvxF8jW1EuLKM/Public
Download Ultimate Edition from sourceforge:-
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ultimat ... rce=navbar
Download Oz Unity 3.0 from sourceforge:-
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ueoz/files/UEOz/
Download Ultimate Edition torrents from linuxtracker:-
http://linuxtracker.org/index.php?page= ... 0&active=1
Download Oz Unity 3.0 torrents from linuxtracker:-
http://linuxtracker.org/index.php?page= ... 0&active=1
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Re: Ultimate Edition 3.4 Lite LTS Questions

Postby Xanayoshi » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:28 am

I am thinking I could spin it with every single one of those computers. If I couldn't I would just drop #! on whatever it didn't work on, which coincidentally is also how I solved an overheat issue with my 489mb RAM Toshiba Satellite.

It also seems you are getting "update" confused with "upgrade" and either way upgrading does not take you from 2.6.2 to 2.6.3, it takes you from Ultimate Edition 2.6.2 to Ubuntu 11.04...with bugs.

Basically, do not Upgrade Ultimate Edition.
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Re: Ultimate Edition 3.4 Lite LTS Questions

Postby Xanayoshi » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:35 am

One thing to watch out for is your kernel, having the latest kernel will not be beneficial with older equipment always, but Ultimate Edition doesn't really go that route so you should be fine. For me I start having issues on my oldest PC at around Linux Kernel 3.5. I think...2000, .99gb Ram, static shocked board, I haven't seen if it will load 3.4 lite, give me about 15 minutes.
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Re: Ultimate Edition 3.4 Lite LTS Questions

Postby Xanayoshi » Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:57 am

So no, it's not happening there, but that's to be expected. I have ran 2.6, 2.8, 3.0 Gamers, on it. Still, that PC sucked when it was new. Kind of disappointed really, I want to install 3.4 lite somewhere.
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Re: Ultimate Edition 3.4 Lite LTS Questions

Postby Driver » Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:55 am

I hope it is acceptable to answer each post (quoting) in a separate post. I cannot find a multi-quote button and my head feels like it's full of cotton and whatever seems to be draining out as fast as I can change the Kleenax in my hand for a fresh one. Need to kick this flu's butt. Here goes:

pam wrote:That's the problem with legacy hardware..
Besides the dual core 32 bit chip, support for everything else is in a degraded state..


Yes, that's what worries me, the computers I have access to are old (and pretty much degraded on their own without any help from software, as far as that goes) and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Interesting that you stated "besides the dual core 32 bit chip," though. My own laptop is one of those "acceptable, mostly, sort of" when it was new kind of computers and that was some years ago. It has one of those OEM "budget" T2250 dual-core 32-bit CPUs and Intel 9?? GMA integrated graphics setups (I know, what a combination, lol) and I was really worried that it'd be virtually a boat anchor - which is slightly better than being a virtual boat anchor, I suppose - after I installed the OS that I did on it, since it was performing so slowly before doing so that I almost felt like looking through the slots in the case to see if the rubber band had broken, and the jump from one OS to the other was so wide in terms of skipped(?) version numbers of everything (went from Ultimate Edition 3.0 to Mint 14 Xfce, which I guess technically has newer components than Microsoft's Windows 8 :roll: ). But, amazingly, the change had the opposite affect, fullscreen streaming video was buttery smooth, I could play (some) games, et cetera. Got lucky there, hope one day I can repair the hardware in it.

The others... Not so much.

pam wrote:If you have no luck with any of the newer distro's then you might have to just use a much older distro.


I know, I may end up having to do that. Only... some of the updates that come down the pipe are security updates. The feature updates, not having those would be a pain - but not having the security ones might be downright painful.

pam wrote:like you mentioned that the initial version of Ultimate Edition 2.6 worked, id recommend you stick with that and maybe update software you use like firefox etc..


Yes, but even that initial version of 2.6 stopped working (for me) after Update Manager did its thing one day. Which confused me, since I always thought that it and 2.7 were built on the same core, only with 2.7 having multiple DEs instead of just GNOME 2.x. Who knows?

I'll probably try both the 2.6 final that Thee recently released and 3.4 Lite, but I don't expect much from the former and I don't expect a miracle from the latter. It would be nice to have a current LTS, especially if I could easily install Xfce 4.10/4.12 (probably) and remove the heavier GNOME - and KDE, if any of it is included, I read that 3.4 Lite is GNOME-only, but am not sure if that is across-the board or only the actual DE (IOW... I looked at installing K3B in my Mint distro and saw a large list of KDE components that it would have added as well, so I decided not to) - components to see if I could get a Ultimate Edition down below 200 megs running in the desktop (with no major apps, only a bunch of "applets" going). That'd actually leave a little breathing room on even the loaner with its 768 megs of shared ram.

pam wrote:kernel upgrades are absolutely worthless on your systems. Infact downgrading to much older kernels will make you yelp with joy, that too if they ever worked.


I'd say you're probably correct, although I'd have phrased it as "...most often absolutely worthless," lol, just in case (but then I'm pretty ignorant of the actual technical aspects of linux, just someone who only boots into Microsoft OS a couple times/year to spend the evening running Windows Update and spends the rest of the year using/enjoying linux, not someone who can crawl under the hood and rebuild it - or even reliably find the hood latch). But even where the kernel is concerned - aren't some of those updates to fix security issues?

pam wrote:try your luck with older lite versions:
http://ultimateedition.info/ultimate-ed ... tion-lite/


They'll be on my list. Worst comes to worst, I hear Puppy linux will fit on a CD and still leave room for a couple months' worth of saved sessions (burned in multi-session mode).

Again, although I'd like to have the latest bells and whistles, my chief concern is missing out on the tighter security aspects of a newer OS/components. I guess, if nothing else, I could always tape a note on the loaner that reads, "NEVER enter ANY personal information, passwords, or account info." Be a bit of a crippling thing to follow, though.

We'll see. Ultimate Edition 2.7 was... Not the greatest experience on that laptop. Was sure great on my desktop when I had it installed from pretty much new-OS, though. (Different hardware makes an extreme difference.) I'm starting to realize that nothing may be all that great on the loaner. Sadly, XP didn't seem that bad (I played Homeworld for a few minutes on it with the visual effects enabled, then my friend logged in to his account and we watched a movie in full screen); but XP was the current (Microsoft) OS when that laptop was new, so I guess it makes sense. Just doesn't make happiness. Still, it's always a fallback if I cannot get equal performance out of linux. Not sure how long XP will be getting updates, either, though. I expected that answer to be "Stopped a long time ago," but it grabbed a bunch after installation the other day. Might be security ones only, but that is, as mentioned, the most important kind (as far as I'm concerned). But then you need to add a good antivirus app, which sits in memory and burns CPU resources constantly, so... Who knows?

Wish I had more blank DVDs, I'd burn both the recent Ultimate Edition editions, Mint Xfce 13 (already have 14), the most recent Debian edition Mint that has Xfce on it (which isn't the newest, they dropped it from the official ones), Debian stable (I always heard it tends to have "old" components, but it would almost certainly have security updates)... I've read Debian is a rolling distro, so that might be interesting. And there are probably several other flavors of linux that I might try if I was sitting on a spindle (err... figuratively speaking) of blanks. Right now I think I have one. Maybe. Getting more just isn't a priority right now, I fear.

I'll end up doing what I can. If/when I get the graphics on the desktop figured out, that'll lessen the urgency of the loaner considerably.
Driver "Driving you over the edge..."

Laptop: HP dv6226 - T2250 1.7gHz Pentium Dual-Core, 1gig, Intel (non-)graphics, Mint 14 Xfce 32-bit, MS Windows Vista Premium DOA
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Re: Ultimate Edition 3.4 Lite LTS Questions

Postby Driver » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:14 am

Xanayoshi wrote:I am thinking I could spin it with every single one of those computers.


I'm not sure I know what that means.

Xanayoshi wrote:If I couldn't I would just drop #! on whatever it didn't work on


While I AM sure that I don't know what that means.

Xanayoshi wrote:which coincidentally is also how I solved an overheat issue with my 489mb RAM Toshiba Satellite.


I solved the overheat issue on the loaner laptop by finally biting the bullet and taking the thing down to "box of parts" state and removing many years of dog hair, cat hair, human hair, other less savory things, and lots of plain old dust/dirt. It helped in a way that it'd do a forced shutdown within a minute or two of powering it up, because the owner decided there was nothing to lose by having me make the attempt, lol. My own laptop still technically functions, however, and requires an additional size screwdriver (plus a replacement for the one that I used for the loaner, the tip is kaput now). And I really cannot see very well & the service manual makes it seem more complicated than the loaner was (and that was frightening/stressful enough).

BtW, 489 megs of ram? If you're able to use the thing on a regular basis - and it's "secure" - then I am Most Suitably Impressed.

Xanayoshi wrote:It also seems you are getting "update" confused with "upgrade" and either way upgrading does not take you from 2.6.2 to 2.6.3, it takes you from Ultimate Edition 2.6.2 to Ubuntu 11.04...with bugs.


It seems to me - and always has - that Ubuntu has gotten "upgrade" confused with "degrade." (Yeah, I clicked on that button. Once.)

Actually, I'd consider what the Update Manager app does on a regular basis to be "updating," and adding ram, changing the CPU (which it turns out can be done to the old HP ze5200 loaner laptop; I thought laptop CPUs were always soldered in), and that dastardly button that Ubuntu likes to sneak into Update Manager... an abomination, lol (but I'm willing to call it a "degrade" in polite circles). Although I probably mix the terms up in day-to-day speech, especially when I'm under the weather and probably not parsing my sentences all that well, anyway.
Driver "Driving you over the edge..."

Laptop: HP dv6226 - T2250 1.7gHz Pentium Dual-Core, 1gig, Intel (non-)graphics, Mint 14 Xfce 32-bit, MS Windows Vista Premium DOA
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Re: Ultimate Edition 3.4 Lite LTS Questions

Postby Driver » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:26 am

Xanayoshi wrote:One thing to watch out for is your kernel, having the latest kernel will not be beneficial with older equipment always, but Ultimate Edition doesn't really go that route so you should be fine. For me I start having issues on my oldest PC at around Linux Kernel 3.5. I think...2000, .99gb Ram, static shocked board, I haven't seen if it will load 3.4 lite, give me about 15 minutes.


The kernel on my iffy laptop is 3.5.0-17-generic (i686) according to Hardinfo. Same OS on the loaner is slow (but only Microsoft Windows has appeared to be faster so far, and that only as far as graphics seem to be a factor - although I am not done trying various distros/versions yet). Not sure how that version compares with Ultimate Edition 3.4 Lite (if it's newer than, older than, or the same). And there's an updated kernel available, looks like 3.5.0.26.32 (and it states that the "old" version is 3.5.0.17.19, I'm not sure what the discrepency means between what Update Manager (MintUpdate?) is calling the old kernel which I assume I have installed and what Hardinfo does, shouldn't the numbers be the same?

I don't know if it is true or not, but I've heard that the newer kernels have more "things" built into them, whereas the older ones loaded the things separately as modules (drivers?) Personally, I'd prefer the latter setup.

BtW, hope your 3.4 Lite installation goes (went?) well.
Driver "Driving you over the edge..."

Laptop: HP dv6226 - T2250 1.7gHz Pentium Dual-Core, 1gig, Intel (non-)graphics, Mint 14 Xfce 32-bit, MS Windows Vista Premium DOA
Desktop: Old AMD Athlon 2200+ 1.792gHz, 1.256gig, nVidia 5200fx 128meg, a new used hard drive awaiting an OS
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Phone: Defy XT Android no-contract $19/mo. unlimited talk/text/data (thanks, Republic Wireless!)
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